Antecessus (antecessus) wrote in vegan_talk,

I have an issue with this groups "bio"

There is either a spelling/grammar mistake, or I'm missing something. What I see right now is, "Please note, however, that not everyone is vegan for reals of morals or animal rights. So while animal rights posts are perfectly welcome and encouraged, please no flames for the non-activists!" I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it should read "for reasons of moral or animal rights.." If that is the case, I have a big problem with that. For the sake of clarity, I don't have a problem with asking people not to get mad at those who simply avoid eating meat, eggs, and dairy because they want to lose weight. What I have a problem with, is that the statement implies that you can be Vegan even if you aren't doing it for the animals... which is impossible.

It must not be very well known that the word "Vegan" hasn't been around since the dawn of the English language. It doesn't just mean "someone who doesn't eat meat, eggs, and dairy products". It isn't just a diet. There are very real motivations behind Veganism that aren't open to debate, or interpretation. This isn't a tarot reading, it's not a message from the Divine written in the clouds, it's not a creation from pop culture, it's not yet another fad diet created by Hollywood, nor an idea jotted down in some obscure poem.

Veganism is TIED to Animal Rights. You CAN'T be Vegan if you aren't also an Animal Rights activist. You are NOT Vegan if you only avoid eating meat, dairy, and eggs, especially if it's to lose weight, get healthy, or because you have some "eating disorder". In fact, if the Vegetarian Society had any courage, and more selflessness, there wouldn't have been a need to make the distinction between Vegan and Vegetarian!

The word VEGAN was created, that's right, CREATED by the Vegan Society in 1944. I believe it was specifically created by Donald Watson, one of the founders of, if not THE founder of the Vegan Society. The Vegan Society was, and still is, all about Animal Rights. Specifically, boycotting animal products, fur, leather, wool, silk, testing on animals, animal cruelty, etc. Veganism is a way of life that includes diet, but it is much more than that.

If this groups bio read "not everyone here is Vegan, so please be kind to them", that would make sense, and it would be a reasonable thing to ask. Of course, if the bio also added that "not all our Vegans are super activists, picketing at every corner, and signing every petition"; that would make sense too, and it would also be a reasonable thing to ask. I suppose I could have said that from the beginning, but like I wrote in the second paragraph: all this must not be very well known.

p.s.: I was trying to put most of this behind an LJ cut, but for what ever reason, it wouldn't let me. My apologies.

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I do get that. In general, I actually agree with you. I get into a lot of debates and even fights about terminology for many reasons, including this. I would be all for the changing of the bio.
I agree.

(Psst, come join veganpeople!)


September 16 2010, 04:07:53 UTC 6 years ago Edited:  September 16 2010, 04:08:37 UTC

none of the maintainers are active anymore, and LJ won't transfer maintainership to an active member until it's obvious that the community is being abused and spammed etc. :-/

i don't understand why LJ_spotlight spotlights maintainerless communities and not kickass active communities that deserves the mention. *shrug* it's happened a few times to undeserved communities that then are overrun for a few weeks and then it dies down. is that how you came across this community? :-)

mirroring what socraticomatic said. join veganpeople and for all your food-related needs, try vegancooking
thank you for letting me know that lol, and it's a shame :/

I will check out Veganpeople for sure! I found this page by doing a "vegan" serch in LJ's communities :)
no prob. :-)

also check out the info page of vegpromo for a gigantor list of all veg*n communities.
oh neat! I was looking for something like that! Thanks again ;)
much obliged. <3

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yea, I think it's a challenge to keep the description of Veganism down to a few words. At this time, I say it's a lifestyle, and that it's a branch of animal rights, or something similar. That isn't very clear though, since even human rights are a mystery to most as it is, lol. I suppose I could also say it's a lifestyle based on the idea that animals aren't ours to use however we want. A tad wordier, but equally a tad clearer, heh.
Yes I remember reading a vegan website that pleaded with people who ate honey etc to say instead that they "follow a vegan diet". I mostly avoid saying I'm vegan because I have not eliminated all non-vegan things from my life (eg: I don't buy new leather, but I still have leather shoes that I will replace with non-leather ones when they wear out)

I understand, because it's similar to how irritating I found this person on another veg community who kept saying they were going vegetarian but would still eat fish. They did not understand when people informed them they were pescetarian. I get that the misuse of labels proliferates confusion and causes difficulty for some when people misunderstand what they mean by veg*n.
You bring up a good point, even if it isn't quite the one I was making. I wasn't so much trying to get nit-picky with exactly how Vegan someone is based on how strict they are. If anything, I was nit-picking the liberal use of the word vegan to describe someone who might follow some aspect of a Vegan lifestyle, but they do it for the wrong reasons (health, weight lose, etc).

What you're saying is a bit of a gray area, at least for me. Clearly, it's impossible to be 100% Vegan at this time, especially if you're living in the city. However, does that mean you're not Vegan because you can't be 100%? I don't think so. If you're doing it for the right reasons, and trying your best based on effort, budget, availability, etc., then that imho still makes you Vegan. But yes, I believe if you're still eating fish, or some milk, or some eggs, or some honey - these are all avoidable, and you can't be considered Vegan yet, but more, in transition.

I respect that you're not calling yourself Vegan yet, even if you're virtually there. It's interesting how non-Vegans, who may not even make any attempts, will call out someone who's trying their best, for not being 100% lol, as if they had any say :p
I think it's just them subconsciously trying to deflect a guilt they feel deep down maybe? (Hope that doesn't sound too amateur psych pretentious)

Like one guy at my work asked if, in a situation where you had nothing else to eat, and it was literally you or the lamb, would you eat it? I replied that in that extreme and unlikely situation where it was literally my life or the lamb's then yes I probably would.

And he went "Ha.", like he had won and that invalidated my entire argument. When in fact the opposite is true: in real life, we DO have a choice, and I am making the one I think involves less suffering.

I actually remember doing similar deflecting myself when I was an omni: I was eager to point out to a vegan coworker that her bag was made of leather, wasn't it? Sigh.

Maybe people who do it for other reasons should say they follow a plant-based diet? I guess that isn't as short and catchy...

Although a part of me does think, if people are wanting to do this for whatever their reason may be, shouldn't they be encouraged, because in the end it will still result in less animal suffering? I mean I originally went veg for "reasons of health" (maybe I didn't want to face the ethical issues front on), and came to this place later. And when I first started, I felt a little bit like a fraud because I didn't have the same reasons as animal-rights vegetarians. I guess everyone comes to it in their own way. I really like nice_vegetarian because it is such a supportive space, even omnis just trying it out feel comfortable posting there, an I love encouraging people. :)

(This is not meant to be a judgement on anyone here, btw :3)

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Why did you post this here? The original post didn't contain any recipe at all. Did you even read the post, or are you just a spammer?

The second website you linked to features a recipe for CHICKEN, why would you post this to a vegan community? We don't want to see this here.

Community moderators, if you're watching this community and its posts, can you please do something about this spamming?
Yea, I already deleted that once before. I'm not a mod, but I am happy to know I can delete that crap if it's on my post :)
what was the username? (so i can pre-emptively ban the user from some of the other vegan communities)